A Way Too Serious Discussion About New Jalop Standards

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 09/24/2015 at 10:23 • Filed to: None

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(post compliments of Longbow)

There is already a standard. However I believe this standard should be updated and I’d want a way too serious discussion about new Jalop standards.

LongbowMkII > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:29

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First, let us determine the most Jalop bodystyle. I nominate the 3 door Shooting Brake. wagon? check. coupe? Check.

Least Jalop: Sport activity 5 door ‘coupe’ Worthless in all aspects other than showing off that you can spend 5 extra figures for nothing. (Now if there was a 3 door rally raid style X6 I would flip in a heartbeat, but sadly that’s never going to happen.)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:29

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I fucking new it. 4 cylinder engines are not Jalop. And the 944 isn’t very Jalop, fuck that!

Party-vi > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/24/2015 at 10:34

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4 cylinder engines over 1.5L but under 2.0L without forced induction are not Jalop.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:34

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Ahem. A proper ute is a wagon when you put a cap on it, a coupe when not, and a pickup too. Most don’t have jump seats, but some do, so it’s totally an open shooting brake. It can even be a convertible, too.

Berang > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/24/2015 at 10:34

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A flat four or V4 is kind of jalop though.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:35

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While I love a shooting brake (Clownshoe anyone?), Camino/Brat/ute may be the most Jalop bodystyle.

Know what’s even worse than an X6? An X6 clone!

Mattbob > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:36

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jalopness does not lie with the car, but with the owner. Any car can be jalop as long as the owner is imbued with the jalopitude necessary to love said car and give it the attention it deserves.

crowmolly > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:36

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I think some more customization criteria are needed. As an example, if you build custom shifter linkage so you can convert a 3-on-the-tree shifter to work with a modern trans (Ramblin) you deserve a seat at the head table. To me stuff like that is more gearhead than just choosing what car to buy.

Hiroku > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:36

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Do away with diesel as a jalop requirement. Spend one day in Europe and you’ll realise how these slow, clattering, smoke-belching cancerous abominations are the course of humanity and everything but interesting and/or fun to drive.

Berang > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:36

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I think the Rambler’s convertible - but not really - type is more jalop...

2cv is sort of the same deal.

nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:39

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I think we need to rethink the cupholder penalty.

My truck has a total of 7 in the front - 2 liter-sized ones in each door, and 3 regular-sized ones in the center console. It’s quite useful for staying hydrated. I think there are 2 or 4 in the back as well, not certain though.

Regardless, -45 points for that is ridiculous.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Berang 09/24/2015 at 10:40

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It isn’t a flat-4...

EL_ULY > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:40

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JALOP!

Not Jalop

Jalop doesn’t mean how cool it is. Jalop is a beater car, rare car, has a lot of issues, but it’s loved and driven by an enthusiast that works on it pretty much every day. An Oldsmobile Delta 88 Diesel > 2015 E63 AMG S Wagon

Party-vi > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:40

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http://www.jalopmeter.com/

End of discussion.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:40

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I demand a redo!!

LongbowMkII > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/24/2015 at 10:42

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Inline 4 above 2.5l or below 1.2l (n/a) should be worth a bit as should Flat 4’s. V4’s are the most jalop arrangement of 4 cylinders.

KnowsAboutCars > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:43

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Nissan’s SR16VE N1 and its 197 naturally aspirated horsepower do not approve this definition.

LongbowMkII > crowmolly 09/24/2015 at 10:45

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It’s nearly impossible to have a standard regarding customizing though. obviously extreme measures should be taken into account when determining an individual vehicle. So maybe like the extra box on a scrabble scorecard?

DrScientist > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:46

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there was no provision for flat/boxer 6 engines in the original jalop survey.

additionally, with new technologies coming into cars, i think we should incorporate new measures for

braking: drum, disc, inboard, power assisted, by-wire

steering: unpowered, hydraulic power assisted, electric power assisted

spares: full spare, temporary donut, run-flat

number of items in/presence of toolkit?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > EL_ULY 09/24/2015 at 10:47

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As I get it, Jalop is distinctly “cool in an unusual way”. So “normal” cool cars, ehhh. Rare unusual beater with something horribly wrong that requires you to do something weird while driving? Ooooh. It definitely *can* be cool, but stuff like a new M5 is a little more “meh” until it gets some age.

Party-vi > KnowsAboutCars 09/24/2015 at 10:47

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Addendum: except wherein the specific output of the engine approaches or exceeds 90hp/L.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:47

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this thing is fantastic

LongbowMkII > Mattbob 09/24/2015 at 10:47

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short of taking a sanding block and torch to my cruze/murano they’re just not jalop. They’re just nice cars, which is totally fine, but not jalop.

KnowsAboutCars > Berang 09/24/2015 at 10:47

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I think Baur e36 deserves a mention too.

DrScientist > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:49

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agree, except i’d throw camino-bed-ute, whatever that’s called in there too.

LongbowMkII > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:49

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looking at creating a v2.0. The world is a different place.

CalzoneGolem > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:50

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Rubbed my nuts on it? 100% Jalop.

DrScientist > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:50

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i think the point is that jalopmeter is out of date with newer tech available today.

and the age of car needs to be updated as well

crowmolly > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:50

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Maybe not that specific, but there have to be some basics.

- Engine not originally offered in chassis

-Trans not originally offered in chassis

-Forced induction added post-factory

-Carb to FI or FI to Carb swap

-Drive wheel swap

etc

If somebody does a RWD LS1 swap w/N2O into a GEO storm, that’s pretty Jalop to me.

Berang > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 09/24/2015 at 10:51

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That’s how I see it. Not necessarily the best car - but the most interesting one.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/24/2015 at 10:52

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Think of something it has that makes it unique that can be added to the scoring system!

Party-vi > DrScientist 09/24/2015 at 10:53

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Age yes. Technology? Meh. Electric cars designed to save gas and emissions are not Jalop. Performance and experimental electric cars are Jalop.

LongbowMkII > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:54

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Then we’re getting quite a few honda motors in there (granted the best ones)

and that makes it way too easy for turbos to meet (e.g. 1.4l cruze with 138hp)

So how about for every 100 rpm above 8,000 that the redline is you get points? this allows points for other high revving engine layouts.

CKeffer > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:54

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But that means the Miata isn’t Jalop!

Berang > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:54

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I think my car scored too high honestly...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DrScientist 09/24/2015 at 10:55

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Great suggestions!

Berang > nermal 09/24/2015 at 10:55

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Yeah there is nothing jalop or un-jalop about cupholders really.

Party-vi > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:55

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What else needs to change besides electric car options?

LongbowMkII > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:55

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I’ll accept ute. strong arguments.

1) Ute

2) shooting brake

3) Spyder (real roofs are for sissies) Thoughts?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 10:55

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But my car has 8 individual throttle bodies...

dogisbadob > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:57

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My license plate light bracket crumbled to pieces.

LongbowMkII > EL_ULY 09/24/2015 at 10:57

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agreed. I find it hard to call 6 figure cars Jalop.

Perhaps points for very low resale value?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Hiroku 09/24/2015 at 10:57

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Contrariwise, an old GMC pickup with a 6-71 supercharged two-stroke diesel and two-speed rear is incredibly Jalop and fun to drive.

Party-vi > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:57

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Then add carbs.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > EL_ULY 09/24/2015 at 10:57

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I don’t think the car in that first picture runs...

If it’s a project and it will some day, fine. If it’s sitting and decaying, no.

But I agree that older cars are generally more Jalop.

marshknute > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 10:57

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You are wrong. The most Jalop bodystyle is the One-Box Executive (aka two-door minivan).

Party-vi > Berang 09/24/2015 at 10:58

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Nonsense. Your car scored true to it’s Jalopness.

EL_ULY > Berang 09/24/2015 at 10:58

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 10:58

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Well it’s SOHC......It has 8 valves.....It is interference? Any of that specialish?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal 09/24/2015 at 10:58

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Yeah, maybe minus 2 or 3 per is more reasonable.

Party-vi > CKeffer 09/24/2015 at 10:59

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No. That means the Miata’s engine isn’t Jalop, which it isn’t. A 2.0L 155hp engine that is a base model for every other car in Mazda’s lineup is not Jalop at all.

DrScientist > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:00

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exactly... but youre looking at it the wrong way. so as these tech advances move into more and more cars, the original, analog tech becomes more jalop. we can use penalties of course too.

eg... steering: no assisted steering (+1), hydraulic power (0), electric power (-1), or something like that.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > nermal 09/24/2015 at 11:00

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Also the 5 points for ashtrays.

LongbowMkII > crowmolly 09/24/2015 at 11:00

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An LSx swap should be worth the least in engine swaps. What car doesnt have an LS in it somewhere?

Party-vi > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 11:00

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Excuse - addendum for naturally aspirated 1.5L - 2.0L engines.

I would agree with the RPM, say 5pts per 100rpm, or a total of 10 points for 8,000 - 8,250 and 20 points for 8,250+

EL_ULY > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:00

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Llol yeah probably. That or this is normal due to the streets being so dusty. Not sure what kind of car it is, but for the Jalop test argument, lets pretend this thing has an odd FWD rotary.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:01

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What would my car be ? It’s a boring sedan, but it also has more torque than God . I got a 127 on the jalop-o-meter

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > dogisbadob 09/24/2015 at 11:02

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100 points!

CKeffer > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:03

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It’s hard to argue there XD

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DrScientist 09/24/2015 at 11:04

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Unpowered brakes: definitely Jalop, if terrifying. Mad extra points if they’re mechanical (early 30s Ford, etc.).

Tripper > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:04

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Agreed, I too would like to see an updated survey. It would be cool have one that can incorporate multiple vehicles so individuals could know their true jalop level.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:05

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Workarounds are Jalop.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 09/24/2015 at 11:05

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And any Duramax.

And the 6.5L vans.

dogisbadob > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:05

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Good, because the replacement costs $100!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Mattbob 09/24/2015 at 11:06

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To a point...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Mattbob 09/24/2015 at 11:07

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Parti-Vi disagrees. He is wrong.

Berang > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:07

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How about exceeds 1hp per cubic inch?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 11:07

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With almost all cars going to turbos, I think NA needs points and turbocharged needs fewer, if not zero.

Also, the 4-door E36 M3 should get the bonus points, as well as the E90 M3 (possibly). And the Pontiac G8 GT/Chevy SS manual...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:07

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What if they rev really, really high?

Party-vi > DrScientist 09/24/2015 at 11:09

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But I don’t think you can qualify steering as a Jalop metric unless we want to make this list so convoluted to break our scoring chart down with colors and specific alphanumeric points.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/24/2015 at 11:11

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Pop-up headlights need points!

LongbowMkII > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:12

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It depends so much on the turbo. There’s not a clean definition of cool turbos (Porsche 930) and economy turbos (most current turbos). For example the Volvo turbos of the 80’s were largely low pressure economy turbos, but they’re still cool. This issue needs particular attention.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Hiroku 09/24/2015 at 11:12

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Yeah, I think diesel made it here in the US because they’re fairly uncommon.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:12

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I know that SUVs are out.

Nonster > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:13

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Ok cool, I was about to say 1.6L 20valve 4AGE would like to have a word with you. Something like 100-110 hp/L, ITB’s, and a 8400 rpm redline!!!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:14

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Yes - revs are good!

Party-vi > Berang 09/24/2015 at 11:15

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IIRC that was the old rating system used for muscle cars, so a 350ci engine would need 250hp to be Jalop, but at the same time a 122ci engine would only need 122hp, which is terrible for a 2.0L engine. I think for the legislation on 4 cylinder engines between 1.5L - 2.0L we can keep the specific output at/near 90hp/L and weed out the economy engines while keeping most of the good ones in. Again, that would be a sub-section for naturally aspirated engines only.

Also, we should have an addendum that states engines installed into a certain car for economy and emission purposes should receive no points if a more powerful option is available, unless the engine is diesel (because we like Diesels for some reason). So the 1.4L turbo in the Cruze is not Jalop, neither is the 1.8L, but the 2.0L turbo diesel is Jalop. Something like that.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:15

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original Honda Insight = Jalop

Toyota Prius = not Jalop

DrScientist > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:16

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the title is “A Way Too Serious Discussion...” :)

Party-vi > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/24/2015 at 11:16

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I think 20pt is enough. You don’t want a significant portion of a car score to be made up from engine RPM alone.

LongbowMkII > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:16

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This is beyond dispute.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:16

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I got a 160, even with four cupholders.

How does your car fare? http://www.jalopmeter.com/

What changes need to be made?

Berang > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:17

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If the smaller engine was an option rather than the default engine, I think the smaller engine would be worth more points.

Party-vi > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:18

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Bingo.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:20

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There should be points for max RPM

Party-vi > Berang 09/24/2015 at 11:21

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Why would a smaller engine be more Jalop though, unless output is higher? That would make sense for the Ecoboost Mustang vs the V6 Mustang, but with what you’re suggesting the base model I4T Camaro is more Jalop than the faster and more powerful V6 Camaro.

Unless it was chosen to make the car handle better, like the 2.4L in the Acura TLX. Reviews say it’s more fun to drive with the smaller engine and DCT than with the larger heavier but more powerful V6 engine.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 09/24/2015 at 11:23

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All SUVs?

Berang > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:23

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Jalop things:

carburetors

vacuum operated wipers

column gear selectors

vent windows

transaxels

magnetic/centrifugal/vacuum operated clutches

torsion bars

folding roofs

dynastart

air cooling

any engine placement that isn’t in front of or over the front axle

Overcomplicated suspensions

amphibious capabilites

Folding windshields

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 11:24

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Definitely. I hope you’re keeping track of all this! =)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 11:25

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What about turbocharged before [date]?

Mattbob > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:26

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what if it’s on a caterham?

Berang > Party-vi 09/24/2015 at 11:26

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1968 SAAB Shrike. 800cc 2-stroke option instead of the 1500cc V4. Only 80 were sold in the U.S. - automatically makes any one of them incredibly cool.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 09/24/2015 at 11:27

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Seems like a fair score to me!

TheAnswerIsAlwaysCitroën > DrScientist 09/24/2015 at 11:27

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How about pure servo/power-operated (not assisted) steering and brakes?

crowmolly > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 11:27

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I know we trivialize it since it’s so common, but that doesn’t make it turn-key.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 09/24/2015 at 11:27

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Jalopness on average, not cumulative.

LongbowMkII > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2015 at 11:28

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there’s the problem because there are still cool turbo cars out there (basically any hot hatch) its hard to blanket it universally.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 09/24/2015 at 11:28

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Still loving the S3? How does it score?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 09/24/2015 at 11:29

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I trust you to figure this out.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Berang 09/24/2015 at 11:29

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YESSS...